Reed,
As I said, I'm working on replying (a bit swamped here atm ;-/). And I'm going to reply "offlist" to you as well.
At 01:48 PM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
>It also depends on what you mean by enlightened, right? The classical
>Chinese used to give out "Certificates of Enlightment" which were pretty
>much the same as "Doctorates of Philosophy". What if "enlightenment"
>meant something more mundane, like mastering a certian way of thinking
>...like multiplication. We're all enlightened mathematicians, in that
>sense.
>Not true, I bet the list is split. Wade put a foot in on your side, before
>Richard checked him with Oprah's book list. Richard and I don't agree
>on some details and I'm sure people on this list don't agree with you
>on every detail. But there are a number of people that don't like Oprah
>for one reason or the other. Certainly, "inferior, ignorant, nuisance"
>isn't what I was thinking (seriously!).
>Anger can be created and it can be destroyed. Why shift it onto
>yourself? I think most of the people on this list will agree that
>you are a good person, seriously trying to help yourself and other
>people have a better life. I suspect a lot of people who haven't
>posted are suspicious of me and probably question the "justness"
>of my starting this discussion with you. Right now we are puzzling
>them. They've been reading, and they don't know who they agree
>with, or how it ought to turn out.
>But if YOU think THEY think you're an "X" sort of person then
>that makes you feel a certian way. Everyone is like that...we
>all care what people think.
Oh, I agree with this. When I said "I don't care what people think" I meant more along the lines of the general public. On the CoV list, I give input, so obviously I care about some kind of feedback, or I wouldn't be wasting my time.
>That is a memetic defense mechanism. You are experiencing cognitive
>dissonance. The force of your present way of thinking is resisting
>the reasonable part of you, which is confronted with inconsistency.
>It is a very unpleasant experience...a "dreaded chore"...I agree. I've
>been right where you are and I know exactly what you mean.
Here, I disagree. I think you're using "nice" words to relay a not-so-nice message. You should be straightforward. I think you're using all these terms to mask saying, "The truth hurts- don't it?" And I would disagree about what the truth is. Also, when I said "dreaded chore", I meant investing all this time sitting at the computer, having to attempt to defend myself against an onslaught of pro-Oprah posts. It was swallowing up my motivation to post and making CoV a very lackluster affair. I wasn't referring to being confronted with someone else's form of Truth.
>Two things can happen.
>
>1) Your present way of thinking overcomes reason and you
>become more resistant to change. For instance, you will begin
>to automatically discount anything Richard or I say...perhaps you
>will log off COV to avoid further input along these lines.
>
>2) Your present way of thinking will be overcome and your mind
>will assemble a new way of thinking accomodating your new
>experiences.
Again, I think you're trying to pick my mind apart a bit too much. You seem to think there is always something more complex and entirely different in my words, when in fact I meant simply one thing only, or else something completely different.
~kjs