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daemon@anon.penet.fi bounced this message back to me.
I am reposting it now
> Shira Evans wrote:
>
> >
> > While knowledge is a powerful force, part of its power comes from its
> > state of flux. If we try to determine a position for memes, wouldn't
> > we be mocking its true force? If fear of the "evil" power that memes
> > might give becomes the modivating factor for position, then we are
> > trapped by our own enlightenment.
>
> I agree, but with knowlege comes responsibility. I remember hearing a
> while ago that (now I don't know this for sure, so please don't sue
> me)-- Marshall McLuhan, after years of being THE communications guru
> ended up as an advertising consultant for Ford Motors. Kind of halo-
> tarnishing, no?
>
> I know that taking a position puts one in the uncomfortable position of
> saying, "this is right and that is wrong". Most of the people on this
> list are scientists of some ilk and prefer (rightly) to avoid judgement
> untill "all the data is in". I agree- flux is great.
>
> My beef is with the "forked tongue" of memetics. One side of the mouth
> says, "liberate yourself from living unconsciously, sieze your power"
> the other side says "hey, the status quo is at stake, beef up your memes
> and give them teeth."
>
> I don't know-- maybe it's because memetics is a relatively new science
> and when its practitioners need to justify it they use different lines
> for different audiences.
>
> The paths of good and evil have nothing to do, really, with memetics
> itself-- but with how it is used.
>
> A person struggling with self empowerment can use memetics to decypher
> the world-- see what influence the world has on him/her and how s/he can
> influence the world.
>
> The KKK will use memetics to bait, frighten and manipulate without
> considering their own enslavement to their own memes. (eg. That's just
> the way the world works)
>
> It *may* be possible the generate strong tooth-and-claw memes that give
> people the ability to empower themselves. The most successful one I've
> seen so far is the basic definintion of "meme"-- the "meme" meme.
>
> > Is it really possible for the Virian Church to promote "the true path
> > of Virianity"?
>
> Sure, why not? One confronts ethical dilemmas when dealing with genetic
> material, why wouldn't the same hold true for memetic material?
-- Regards +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ Ken Pantheists http://www.lucifer.com/~kenpan Virus Theatre http://www.lucifer.com/virus/theatre TooBa Physical Theatre Centre http://www.ffa.ucalgary.ca/vca/tooba.htm +--------------------------------------------------------------------+--------------560C5574CC8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
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Contents of message follows:
From: an613553@anon.penet.fi X-Anonymously-To: contagion Organization: Anonymous forwarding service Reply-To: an613553@anon.penet.fi Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:20:49 UTC Subject: Re: virus: Power References: <v01510100ae1d167fa7c1@[128.206.115.84]> <31F792CD.30F@stu.oru.edu>
Shira Evans wrote:
> > While knowledge is a powerful force, part of its power comes from its > state of flux. If we try to determine a position for memes, wouldn't > we be mocking its true force? If fear of the "evil" power that memes > might give becomes the modivating factor for position, then we are > trapped by our own enlightenment.
I agree, but with knowlege comes responsibility. I remember hearing a while ago that (now I don't know this for sure, so please don't sue me)-- Marshall McLuhan, after years of being THE communications guru ended up as an advertising consultant for Ford Motors. Kind of halo- tarnishing, no?
I know that taking a position puts one in the uncomfortable position of saying, "this is right and that is wrong". Most of the people on this list are scientists of some ilk and prefer (rightly) to avoid judgement untill "all the data is in". I agree- flux is great.
My beef is with the "forked tongue" of memetics. One side of the mouth says, "liberate yourself from living unconsciously, sieze your power" the other side says "hey, the status quo is at stake, beef up your memes and give them teeth."
I don't know-- maybe it's because memetics is a relatively new science and when its practitioners need to justify it they use different lines for different audiences.
The paths of good and evil have nothing to do, really, with memetics itself-- but with how it is used.
A person struggling with self empowerment can use memetics to decypher the world-- see what influence the world has on him/her and how s/he can influence the world.
The KKK will use memetics to bait, frighten and manipulate without considering their own enslavement to their own memes. (eg. That's just the way the world works)
It *may* be possible the generate strong tooth-and-claw memes that give people the ability to empower themselves. The most successful one I've seen so far is the basic definintion of "meme"-- the "meme" meme.
> Is it really possible for the Virian Church to promote "the true path > of Virianity"?
Sure, why not? One confronts ethical dilemmas when dealing with genetic material, why wouldn't the same hold true for memetic material?
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