To Hermit and other amused readers,
Due to exam season around here, and the length of response required, we will be unable to respond all at once in the immediate future. However, a series of E4C (evidence for Christianity) articles will be sent along. Going from the easiest of your arguments to refute to the most difficult (which appear to be the mathematical ones), I will explain all that I can, research everything else, etc.
If you can hit-and-run (which I really don’t mind) than I can break my statements into e-mail friendly chunks. It’s nice to see the Hermit come out of his cave, now and then.
Before I actually respond to any of these stimulating arguments, I just want to say that I enjoy being on this list. It’s great to compete with minds that debate well. At this moment, if I was an atheist, I fell that I’d argue Christianity anyway just to have such brilliant and entertaining responses. I respect each and every one of you as intelligent, rational people who have viewpoints that indicate different truths than will ever make sense to me.
A new argument that I know is only going to make everyone open-minded think, and the close-minded angry: (I’m already laughing at the hysterical replies you haven’t sent yet)
This is addressed to all atheists who set eyes here.
In a way, you’re right.
It’s easier to prove NOTHING,
To believe NOTHING,
To trust NOTHING
And in a way, you’ll never be disappointed.
But as you think about NOTHING
Write about NOTHING,
And do NOTHING,
I’m doing something for Someone.
Now, for the most obvious errors…
<< (c) Jehoiachin was 18 (2 Kings 24:8), 8 (2 Chron. 22:2) years old
when he began to reign and he reigned 3 months (2 Kings 24:8), 3 months
and 10 days (2 Chron. 36:9)>>
<< (g) Lot was Abraham’s nephew (Genesis 14:12), brother (Genesis
14:14)>>
Genesis 14:14, in *most* Bibles says, “Kin”, not brother. The Hebrew language may use the same word for both.
To be honest, I wasn’t there, and I don’t know, like so many other things. Ten years difference is big, but likely to be a scribing error. Another possibility was that he was the official ruler at age 8, and a regent was actually managing things until the boy matured. For the 3 months versus 3 months and 10 days, that’s a simple case of rounding, same as the PI thing. (Another matter, who said that it was a perfect circle?)
<< (h) Joseph was sold into Egypt by the Midianites (Gen. 37:36), by
Ishmaelites (Genesis 39:1)>>
At first, this is pretty convincing. However, it is likely that Joseph’s brothers sold him to the Midianites, who turned a profit handing him over to the Midianites.
<<(i) Saul was killed by his own hands (1 Sam. 31:4), by a young Amalekite (2 Samuel 1:10), by the Philistines (2 Sam. 21:12)>>
“By the Philistines” is not a valid conclusion, check the context and you will find that they hung his dead body, it was not an execution. As for the other two, it’s possible that Saul tried to kill himself, failed, and was then ‘aided’ (or whatever) by the young man.
<< (l) The Earth does (Eccle. 1:4) does not (2 Peter 3:10) abideth
forever>>
There’s nothing wrong with the verses themselves. However, context is the key. In the “Forever Earth” case, they’re saying that this planet, this dirt wad in space, isn’t going to come to mysterious and apocalyptic end where it simply disappears. To say that it does end, is saying that life on Earth, or perhaps some spiritual ending (Second Coming) will happen according to Peter.
As for my personal statement that I would not kill for God, I did not say that it’s not within God’s limits to take a life, after all, he gave that person life to begin with. Since those people were all going to die eventually, it makes sense to minimize the suffering of others.
For something yet unmentioned, historians didn’t agree with the Biblical account of Daniel 5:1-17 King Belshazzar offered the position third in the kingdom. Historical records did not indicate the rule of any such man. Then, archeologists found some documented historical account that stated that King Belshazzar was co-ruling with his father, who handled matters abroad while the younger took care of domestic matters. That’s also why he was offered the position third in the kingdom (not second).
On the Khomeni thing, I might insight add a shred of tradition that, by your definition, was added afterward. At the Last Supper, the cup that Jesus said he wouldn’t drink of was the messianic cup. Symbolically, if this terrible rabid preacher had taken a sip, he would’ve been saying, “I want to be the Messiah in the traditional ‘let’s kill some conqueror’s butt’ sense. The triumphant Messiah begged for on Palm Sunday fits the description you put forth, an insurrectionist with a nervous habit of Torah- thumping. Jesus could’ve had that job, the crowds were hysterical- he would’ve had the same story as Mussolini, if only he had said the word. Did he try? Doesn’t look like it.
Quick note on faith, logic and sanity.
The disciples, (assuming, for the sake of argument, they existed)
followed Jesus (assuming, for the sake of argument, he existed) for
about three years.
They either saw him doing miracles, or doing tricks;
They saw him being altruistic, or they saw him drop the mask;
They saw him sinless, or they saw him sinful.
They saw him rise from the dead, or they saw where they *really* put the
body***
Then, with this knowledge, they put their lives on the line, for something that they saw with their own eyes, or something that they made up, to serve truth, or just to get themselves into trouble. If the early Christians were crazy enough to stick their necks out for a lie, then I’d expect even more inconsistencies within a single gospel account, and some gospel writers would hide their own crimes. For example, why would the gospels talk about the disciples falling asleep in the garden? It benefits no one, and hurts the image of the disciples.
James and John were either fighting to be second and third in heaven, or second and third most wanted in the province of Palestine.
May (God/ The Squid/ The Oyster/ The Unicorn/ NOTHING) bless you all.
-Joy
PS I didn’t ask for this, until someone directly confronted me, I did not even say that Christianity was the right way on the list. I figured it would be too intolerable to such a tolerant, open-minded bunch of individuals. The statement “This is the bare definition of Christianity…” was only to state that the point is not the two hundred or so laws, nor the tiny squabbles of doctrine. I could’ve made an example of other religions, I happen to be most familiar/ comfortable working with the truth. In addition, when someone said “Here’s the basis of Buddhism” there was no problem. If I had said, “here’s the primary meme of Squidism or Rabbitology” you wouldn’t have violently attacked those. May I then conclude, by your behavior, Mister Hermit, that you were forced to sit through one too many church services? Perhaps you knew someone who died in a religious struggle. If either is true, you have my sympathy. Otherwise, quit trying to act like the high-and-mighty, all-tolerating oracle that you project yourself to be. (I still respect you, by the way. It’s just that nobody’s ever as tolerant with us as with anything else. I realize that maybe some people who had their Christian vaccine and decided to play church may have been jerks. However, there are overly zealous factions of every belief system.)
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