Hi,
From: Reed Konsler <konsler@ascat.harvard.edu>
<<
In a sense, they aren't ever born...they are decanted, but they never
experience any pain. Isn't that what we want? We treat AIDS because
people are in pain, yes? Doesn't that human suffering make your heart
bleed? Isn't the sharing of pain the heart of compassion? of
empathy?
>>
The non-experience of pain is not what we want -- what we want is the absence of coercion (the psychological state of being forced to enact a theory while a rival theory remains active in your mind). In many ways, it is similar, but certain situations -- e.g. difficult training for a sporting event -- pain is fully allowed. The heart of empathy is finding and sympathizing with that coercion -- groking the contradiction between what they have and what they want.
<<
Interesting. I agree that it's not a good trend...well, unless the
state exercises so much control that there is never any opportunity
for people to make they're own decisions. Again, though, this seems
to be leading me to conclude that, sometimes anyway, compassion and
empathy are exactly the thing not needed. We have to let children
experience the consequences of their actions and, if we find ourselves
in positions of authority, we need to step up to that responsibility
and smack them silly (metaphorically...even literally?) from time to
time. Or maybe not?
>>
Negative. What we want to do is let people *choose*, but not *fend* for themselves -- as Huxley says in _Brave New World Revisited_: "But societies are composed of individuals and are good only insofar as they help individuals to realize their potentialities and to lead a happy and creative life". Smacking people silly is exactly a step in the wrong direction -- instead of punishing individuals for mistakes, we should be helping them to learn from them; indeed doing all that we can to place individuals in non-coercive learning environments.
<<
To be honest, I'm confused. BNW is a utopia where everyone gets what
they want.
>>
Incorrect. BNW is a "utopia" where everyone gets what you tell and train them to want.
<<
If not, it seems like we are accepting that discord will be with us
forever...that you and I might even be required to meet out punishment
for violation of collective mores or laws. In other words, in the
interest of <freedom> we might have to dispassionately bomb innocent
civilians at times. Can you help me out of this ethical quagmire
before I become a Republican?
>>
What you are missing (again) is that punishment and pain, per say, are not helpful -- they do not help people learn, instead they induce coercion damage, destroy creativity and make people less rational. Mistakes will be made. The goal of a utopian society would be to ensure that the individuals learn either (1) the easy way, from others, or (2) as quickly and painlessly as possible from their own mistakes.
ERiC
You don't need to understand his motivation. I believe it *seems* that he may act in a way for the sheer joy of tormenting another human being, but you know in your heart that this isn't true. More than likely he is trying to get a need met and he is under the mistaken impression that his sister is somehow thwarting him. He is frustrated. You need to be on his side and help him get what he wants. This was (is still) a hard shift for me to make. When one child is bullying another, rescue the victim and figure out how to help the bully. It pays off for everyone.