Re: virus: Faith vs Relig

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:32:17 -0800

Hi Joy,

Have you been following the faith vs. phaith discussion? Any thoughts?


Snow Leopard wrote:
> I was raised Catholic, and went to many Protestant youth groups. I
> found bits of wisdom in every one of them. I will be the last person to
> tell you “This group is religious, that one is faithful.” I will be the
> first to tell you that it is really an individual thing.
> I realize how this must look: after all, I’m about to attribute all the
> stupid, shameful things of Christianity on the religious, and tell you
> that most of the good things heppened by the hand of the faithful. On
> the other hand, I have little choice.
> Faith vs. Religion is, for the most part, a _motives_ issue. I can go
> do community service because I want to serve God, and help the word, or
> I can do community service as if a few hours of my life could somehow
> bribe God into letting me into Heaven. I can help a beggar because ‘God
> loves him too’ or I can help a beggar because I want to look altruistic.
> I can tell you “Jesus Christ is the only thing that can save you from
> hell” because I want to share what I think is the truth (for your
> benefit and God’s), or I can do it because my priest, some guy who makes
> a living by whering a night robe and mumbling in latin, is telling me to
> harass the ‘lost.’
> I guess when I say ‘religious’, I mean those who put whatever faith they
> have in their priest, the name of their church, or the traditions,
> rather than the God those things are supposed to point to.
> Examples on Faith vs. Religion:
> The Bible has a few instances where snake bites have been ineffective,
> though the crude knowledge of the day said that the peole should be
> dead. Now, a religious person, trying to prove how much they trust God
> might allow themselve to be bit by a snake, or to avoid medical
> treatement after such a tring happens. A faitful individual sees the
> sanke, cautiously moves away. The faithful would probably be praying to
> God for something to distract the snake. If it is completely
> unavoidable, the faithful have a confidence that God can distract the
> snake, or deliver them from the problem, so long as there was no way for
> them to deliver themselves.
> You’ve consistently pointed to the effects of various religions- the
> Crusades, cult suicides, and I’d add the Muslim suicide bombings. You
> know people usually attack what they don’t understand, how can a
> religion (an organization of mankind trying to appease a higher entity)
> be held to a higher standard that a government (an organization trying
> to appease the needs of the people)?
> In Hitler’s day, he bullied the Lutheran church into passing memes to
> the people. The leaders of the Lutheran were afraid of Hitler, so they
> told the priests what Hitler said was true. The priests passed the meme
> to the people. It read, “We are better people that them (the Jews, the
> Poles, the gypses, the handicap)- and our glorious leader is correct in
> killing them.” You know, if the people had opposed Hitler, he couldn’t
> supported his regime if popular support vanished.
> Now, I hate religions as much as the rest of you. My father was a “good
> Catholic,” and for most of her life, so was my mother. Then, my mother
> realized that Christianity isn’t about rosaries and masses. The stupid
> little arguments such as wine versus grape juice only prove the
> corruption of both mainstream Catholic and mainstream Protestant
> churches. Religion is about dogma, about putting the brain on
> autopilot. And I agree that it stinks.
> You don’t see the difference, but it’s there. I may only be the leader
> of a small group of youths, but if I qualify for “I’d like to see a
> spiritual leader admit that their faith may lead followers down the
> wrong path…” than I can do better than that. I know, for absolute
> certain that I’m wrong to a degree. Setting aside the “For all have
> sinned…” scripture, I have a theory. If my beliefs were 100% correct,
> then I would be belessed to such an abundant degree, especially
> emotionally, that I’d be able to convince everyone else that I’m right.
> If a denomination (anyone of them, just pick) had the whole truth, there
> would be what has been generally termed “Revival,” and that denomination
> would spread memes from one end of the Earth to the other. But God
> gives us the chance to search for him for the same reason you let a
> child sound out a word: the pleasure both get to see the child realize
> what that group of symbols means. I will never have the whole truth,
> you will never have the whole truth, and the religious stink primarily
> because they’re not even looking for the next bit of truth.
> The stupid thing of it all is, when I refer to the “religious”, I’m
> really just referring to those who put whatever faith they have in their
> priest, the name of their church or the traditions, rather than the God
> that the priest, church and traditions are supposed to point to.
> I’m not much of a scientist, but I recall hearing about certain bacteria
> in the human body being attacked by viruses. The virus could not target
> the cells _of_ our bodies, but they could target cells _in_ our bodies.
> Without that virus, the bacteria would corrupt the body, and hurt the
> host.
> It is very much the same way with Christian faith. (I’m not putting
> down any other faith, but since I can’t personally testify, I will not
> pretend to understand what exactly followers of other faiths get out of
> those faiths.) “Sin” or evil, or maybe guilt- whatever you want to call
> it- corrupts humans.
> The bare definition of the Christian faith is “Jesus Christ, the perfect
> Son of God is the only thing that can save us from our own wrongdoings.
> All you have to do is let him live through you, acceptingg him as Lord
> and Savior.” That virus enters your head, and through some immunity
> (see previous article) you ignore these premises as false, restricting
> or unimportant, or you allow yourself to be infected. You’re infected?
> Great! You personally will not be attacked, will not become ill, but
> the corruption in your life will be.
> Personally, I don’t understand what there is to lose. I remember
> learning to ride my bike, I couldn’t keep the confidence to keep looking
> ahead unless my father’s hand was on the seat, holding me up. Even if
> the hand wasn’t there, it’s the confdence that counts. So, if there is
> no God, then I have a confidence that makes me comfortable. At what
> cost? If there is no God, then I am acting well, but there’s no one to
> answer to, if God is all in my mind, than a projection of a God-concept,
> coming from me encourages me to live right, and it’s just my conscious.
> On the other hand, if there is a God, the one that I believe there is,
> then he’s happy with me, at least to some degree. And, to be brutally
> honest, I’d rather have more than I need, than need more than I have.
> Christians-
> We're not perfect, we're just forgiven!
> Get Your Private, Free Email at