RE: virus: The Alleged Virtues of Faith (was: The Energizer Bunny)

carlw (
Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:39:13 -0600

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []On Behalf
> Of Tim Rhodes
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 10:57 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: virus: The Alleged Virtues of Faith (was: The Energizer
> Bunny)
> On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, joe dees wrote:
> > You're still locked into the vision of the archetypical
> (Unity vs. Duality) as actual (Unity vs. Multiplicity), when
> the _latter_ isn't even actual! Genes, minds, memes,
> societies, ecologies and evolutions are much more complex,
> recursive and multifaceted fractal systems than such
> simplistic, integral (in the sense of integers) and digital
> metaphors (reductionist memes) can map or model. They may lie
> beneath or beyond them, but never beside them. You may swear
> that you are drawing similes, but they are in no
> meaningful/useful way similar.
> If a man is trying to choses which side of coin to cast his
> lot on, what good
> does it do to tell him about the atoms and electrons and
> quarks that compose
> it, if he cannot even see the metal from which it is cast?

So instead of telling him about the joy of living in the wonderful and exciting universe we all share, we should sell him the lead nickels of faith instead? There have been many religions of that kind in the past, invented by good memeticists even if they didn't call themselves that. Why do you imagine that your brand of nickel is better than theirs? And why should anyone want to trade it (buying or selling) in favor of some of the older, more established memes? Newer (in a meme field) is not always "better". Just because it is "invented here" conveys no benefit to anyone outside the coterie of the church of virus. It seems to me that more thought and disclosure of your aims and the steps to be taken in order to accomplish them, might be more fun - and holds slightly more chance of accomplishing anything, than the sterile retilling of tired soil. Unless of course, these word games are the final product? The tired old religions have enough proponents skilled in the art of mouthing sonorous, but essentially meaningless threats and promises. Are you thinking of a better way of doing the same? Or of trying something new? If you are planning something new, I would hope that you will share your vision rather than play semantic games.

> You read the what of
> my post, did you read the why as well, my fellow shaman?
> -Prof. Tim

In my opinion, for what it is worth, reason, logic, discovery, teaching, science, literature, art, music, sharing, sex, enthusiasm, children, joy, ideas, laughter, flowers, the sea, mountains, stars, are the kinds of things that make life worth living. Not faith. Not didactics. Not meaningless mouthing.

TheHermit <Not sure what a COV shaman really is - but rapidly becoming convinced that it is unlikely to be a desireable occupation>