RE: Re: virus: Re:[genius] Sexism

Sodom (
Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:48:20 -0500

>>Kristy wrote:
>>You must
>>realize that for most sexual-assault survivors, they are screwed up for
>>rest of their life, and they do indeed suffer every single day.>>

>Very true, very true.
>In fact, it's true of most people, regardless of what they have survived,
>isn't it?
>If studies showed that sexual-assault survivors became more successful in
>their lives than the rest, would you then be in favor of sexual assault?
>Of course not.
>This is a classic example of a quandary that cannot be solved within Level

>We can be happy and successful by choosing the attitudes with which we look
>at the past, present, and future. The same attitudes are not "correct" for
>everyone nor in every situation. You are trying to change people's
>to fit an agenda you have. People are very resistant to having their
>attitudes changed, even if they are stupid, counterproductive, even
>self-destructive attitudes.
>Kristy, few people are "for" rape. Think about what you are trying to
>accomplish and how best to achieve it. Telling other people they are wrong
>may just entrench them even more strongly. It is very unlikely to change
>anyone's mind and leaves a trail of bitterness.
>Richard Brodie

Kristy, you are most certainly correct about the psychological difficulties regarding Rape. In my experience, almost all the Women I have had "relations" with, have told me of being raped at least once, many had much more heinous stories that I would rather not mention. Richard is definitely correct when he states that "We can be happy and successful by choosing the attitudes with which we look at the past, present, and future.". I have enough experience with rape victims in a personal relationship that I can say a few things about it - I will limit my discussion to women with whom I have been intimate AND close to emotionally.

1> In my experience, about 60% of women I know have specifically told me they have been raped.
2> The 3 responses most common in my experience are: a. About 50%: Dealed well with it and improved their understanding of men. Fully functional, ready and willing sexually. Still angry and upset but the anger is directed.
b. About 30%: Not-stable. Not accepting of what happened but generally "block" the thought from their lives the best they can. Occasional freak outs and instabilities that have gotten me concerned. Usually still ready and willing to have a healthy sex life. And don't hate "men". c. About 20%: Blocked out entirely until emotional explosion did serious emotional damage. Dysfunctional sexually and emotionally. Medicated and still unaccepting of reality. I am VERY familiar with this situation - too much so. Lack of trust in men makes it very difficult for a caring male to help, this is the most distressing aspect. 3> Those in group A are, in my experience, the brightest and generally most successful. A close friend "Lisa" experienced the most extreme rape I know of or have heard of. When she gave me the details I was aghast and amazed what the human soul could handle. With a great deal of admiration, I stayed with Lisa for a while, and her courage and strength of spirit amazed me. 4> Group B is a bit different. "Julie" would go between extremes and sometimes was a great burden emotionally. "Julie" is a very religious person and had several other "man" related problems - not only that, she has her doctorate in Physics. Her and I would argue "god" endlessly and love doing it. She was sexually functional and did not seem to associate "men" with "rape". Our relationship flourished.
5> Group C is where I have the most experience - unfortunately. I have spent many years with one of these. It has caused so much suffering and pain for both this person and myself, that it has nearly cost us our relationship several times. I am paying dearly for the offenses of another man from 15 yrs ago. This problem does not go away, and seldom improves. I know this person better than any other person - yet the damage caused by a single "questionable" rape was far more than the severe rape case in group A.. I love this person very much, but she is philosophically challenged and does not have the reasoning tools that most people here take for granted. Without these tools, or even the tools to use these tools, I suspect that improvement will take a long time.

My point is - the perspective of the victim can turn an event into something positive (even if the event itself was decidedly not positive). The pain can be self perpetuating in a mentality that hosts fear well, and is inflexible. Those with flexible and thought out philosophies, seemed to be far more balanced after such an awful experience.

Bill Roh