Re: Santa Claws - was RE: virus: Re: inconsistent worldviews

sodom (sodom@ma.ultranet.com)
Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:37:02 -0500

It seems to me, and Ill think that you will agree, that this Santa thing, which is not relevant the original string, is a question of perspective. Frankly, I believe that you are accurate in everything you are saying - but - I come from an middle class neighborhood that was filled with nothing but Methodists, Luthersns, Mormons and Catholics (My family - Athiest and the Nadel's around the corner were the Jewish family). My street was full of kids about my age and Christmas was clearly the funnest time of the year for everyone involved. I bet this is a view help by many millions, so I can sure you can understand my view.

now - I do still agree that it is better to teach a more rational holiday. I have already agreed with my wife, we will not teach Santa and Xmas and such. We will still celebrate the winter season, and time with our families. We will probably give out gifts and such. But we have agreed to have an Athiests Holiday.

Also - on the Citizens at peace scale - The places you mentioned are really messed up. Look at the parents they seem to be making from these "nicer" "Much more responsible" children. Much of the X-Sovient Uninon is war torn, and the Republics. Poverty is rampant across Aftica and the Far East. These Children seem nicer to you becasue of reasons other than Santa, more responsible maybe beacuse they have to work to provide for their family? Also - they may not teach Santa - so they teach one of a million God types, I am sure the youngsters are not explained death in a "real" sense. So dont go of on the idea that these people are bred to be rational.

what you are describing is a childs hell. Children NEED imagination - it is fundamental to proper mental development. I have spent a lot of time with Children, and so far I have learned one thing about their behavior - Good parents almost always have good children, bad parents almost always have bad children. I have only been through the US, Mexico, The Caribean and Ireland and spent time with Children, and as far as I can tell, they are all very similar, regardless of their beliefs.

carlw wrote:

> I have and then some.
>
> Mainly in Africa and in the near and far east, where Santa Claus is an alien
> to most children. Also in the ex Soviet Union and Republics, where this kind
> of nonsense has died out. In both places, presents are given and received by
> real people instead of by an arbitrary monster who gives some "bad" children
> of "rich" parents wonderful gifts, while "good" children of "poor" parents
> get little or nothing. Do you really think that the modern Western concept
> (dating only from the late victorian era) where things are "given" and
> subsequently "expected" rather than seeing the effort which the giver makes,
> is preferable to a more human and real model. One which has the advantage of
> not teaching children that the world works one way, and letting them
> discover much later in life that Santa does not really exist and they can't
> expect things to come from nowhere? For some reason the children in the
> places I mentioned seem to be so much "nicer", so much more responsible than
> most Western children I have met. I wonder if Santa "Claws" has anything to
> do with this?
>
> TheHermit
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-virus@lucifer.com
> > [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com]On Behalf
> > Of Tim Rhodes
> > Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:31 PM
> > To: virus@lucifer.com
> > Subject: Re: virus: Re: inconsistent worldviews
> >
> >
> > DasHermit wrote:
> >
> > >Bill wrote:
> > >> [...] after all, we all like to think of Santa as real when we are
> > >> little, and I don't see kids going crazy over it (except for the
> > >>next morning).
> > >
> > >I'd say that kids who are not loaded down with illusions, not to say
> > >delusions, about fat, elderly men, who invite them to sit on
> > their laps and
> > >who offer them sweeties, are not only happier but also much safer.
> >
> >
> > You haven't spent much time around children, have you?
> >
> > -Prof. Tim
> >
> >