I agree that faith the way you and I are using it
shows-- in both cases-- the quality of
self-affirmation (or in your case, shows a LACK of
self-negation-- by a third party?!?); and, yes, in
2nd or 3rd person perspective there is-- as you
point out-- the potential for the actions of these
others to be secondary in importance to the
first-person's pre-judged "assumptions" as regards
these other's actions... though I call this
pre-judged assumption *trust* (in other's
abilities) and show a BASIS for this trust in the
first-person's PRIMARY belief (in himself).
This begs the question as to where this primary trust in self (or faith) originates... is it unfounded? If so, then I call it trust. And on this we both seem to agree too-- that in situations of trust, the secondary action (the one which is trusted to be successful) is not contingent on the primary action at all (the second action may be LIKE the first action... it may not be).
And this final point begs the question: Upon what factual basis is trust as regards the second act founded if not upon the first act?
Well, I accept your points (anyway) that faith in
oneself may be unfounded in the first place... and
also that hope in another involves one person
projecting the quality of self-hood on another
(not much different from our definition of trust--
according to which one projects the qualities of
one SITUATION onto another situation).
----Original Message Follows----
From: "the great tinkerer"
<gr8tinkerer@hotmail.com>
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: Re: virus: Faith and trust
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:24:55 PST
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
<<Faith is like saying "I know I can do it because that is who I am and that is what I do": Trust is like saying "I imagine I can do it because you can't stop me and because I haven't yet proven that I cannot".>>
faith and trust i would pu differently:
faith: "i have faith that i can do it because you
havent proven *to me*
why i cant" just how hard it is too prove someone
is about their
stubborness or the potency of the faith meme they
have.
trust: "i have preformed similar functions, and
therefore i trust i can
preform this one"
applied to the second and third person:
faith: "i have faith that he/she/you can do it
because you havent proven
*to me* why he/she/you cant"
trust: "he/she/you has preformed similar
functions, and therefore i
trust he/she/you can preform this one"
for faith you could also say: you have said that
you could preform other
functions and have not failed me yet (regardless
if they were similar
functions) and so i have faith that you can
preform this function.
is that a good way of separating faith from trust? ~the great tinkerer
B. Lane Robertson
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