Re: virus: Faith and trust

B. Lane Robertson (
Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:12:23 PST

I agree that faith the way you and I are using it shows-- in both cases-- the quality of
self-affirmation (or in your case, shows a LACK of self-negation-- by a third party?!?); and, yes, in 2nd or 3rd person perspective there is-- as you point out-- the potential for the actions of these others to be secondary in importance to the first-person's pre-judged "assumptions" as regards these other's actions... though I call this pre-judged assumption *trust* (in other's abilities) and show a BASIS for this trust in the first-person's PRIMARY belief (in himself).

This begs the question as to where this primary trust in self (or faith) originates... is it unfounded? If so, then I call it trust. And on this we both seem to agree too-- that in situations of trust, the secondary action (the one which is trusted to be successful) is not contingent on the primary action at all (the second action may be LIKE the first action... it may not be).

And this final point begs the question: Upon what factual basis is trust as regards the second act founded if not upon the first act?

Well, I accept your points (anyway) that faith in oneself may be unfounded in the first place... and also that hope in another involves one person projecting the quality of self-hood on another
(not much different from our definition of trust--
according to which one projects the qualities of one SITUATION onto another situation).

----Original Message Follows----
From: "the great tinkerer"
Subject: Re: virus: Faith and trust
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:24:55 PST

<<Faith is like saying "I know I can do it because that is who I am and that is what I do": Trust is like saying "I imagine I can do it because you can't stop me and because I haven't yet proven that I cannot".>>

faith and trust i would pu differently:

faith: "i have faith that i can do it because you havent proven *to me*
why i cant" just how hard it is too prove someone is about their
stubborness or the potency of the faith meme they have.

trust: "i have preformed similar functions, and therefore i trust i can
preform this one"

applied to the second and third person:
faith: "i have faith that he/she/you can do it because you havent proven
*to me* why he/she/you cant"

trust: "he/she/you has preformed similar functions, and therefore i
trust he/she/you can preform this one"

for faith you could also say: you have said that you could preform other
functions and have not failed me yet (regardless if they were similar
functions) and so i have faith that you can preform this function.

is that a good way of separating faith from trust? ~the great tinkerer

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B. Lane Robertson

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