<< > which in turn is the center of perception
perception has no center. it happens everywhere at once.
> and is maintained through the combined activities of self-reference
> and perception.
what does this mean? >>
Information Theory describes perception based reality. This is different
from self based reality (solipsism being the most drastic version) and other
based reality (materialism, God, animism etc.). Perhaps it is misleading to
say that perception has a "center", but it necessarily involves a perciever
and a percieved. For each perciever all perceptions will necessarily be
organized around the perciever. (This is much the same way that every point
in space appears to be the center of spatial exansion of the universe. The
Big Bang happened right here but it also happened everywhere.) Here we can
either insert a just so story, or appeal to anatomy. The perciever just is,
or it is maintained through brain/thought organization. For the functioning
of "self" it is practical (and perhaps accurate) to say that the self is the
perciever.
<<<< to use the word "I" in a sentance condemning people for not
> abandoning the concept of Self is certainly a bit ironic.>>
>
> Yes, ironic and perhaps almost inevitable.
inevitable? how about this: "there is an idea that Self is harmful,
a cause of suffering -- and this idea has helped to condition the idea
that the elimination of Self from speech would inhibit its transmission
and reinforcement, leading to the easing of suffering.">>
Oh, very good example! Says who? :-)
<< in defense of the Nonself, it must be said that the Buddha's
boundless compassion does not seem very irresponsible. >>
That sounds nice but I don't know who or what you are talking about although I
have heard similar combinations of words before.
I do know of something close to home. There is a gang of teenage boys that
lives in my apartment complex. They meander around the area torturing
animals, destroying property and threatening others. Individually they do not
feel responsible themsleves (them-self(s)) for any of this stuff. Ask any of
them, the cat/dog/duck was being tortured. That was what was happening and
they were just there. They have no sense of self. Everything just happens
and they are passive observers. This isn't meant to suggest that nonself or
lack of self necessarily leads to pathological, or psychotic behavior, but in
the same turn I don't think that non-self is necessarily an abundant source of
boundless compassion either.
<<> "I" is also a meta-convention that supports such helpful conventions
> as initiative and taking responsibility.
explain "supports"? >>
Initiative and taking responsibility are things which require actors and
agents. "I" provides that.
<< certainly the Self Meme does "take responsibility" for quite a lot of
things -- this being a successful method of retransmission and substantiation.
unfortunately it does not actually *do* these things, as they are caused by
multiple interacting factors -- those occurances which have conditioned the
environment within which they occur, including those occurances which have
conditioned the brain (memories) -- and thus the Self as a center of
responsibility is an illusion.>>
. . . . and . . . .
<<"there is an idea that Self is harmful, a cause of suffering -- and this
idea has helped to condition the idea that the elimination of Self from speech
would inhibit its transmission and reinforcement, leading to the easing of
suffering.">>
Illusions and suffering in and of themsleves are not necessarily bad things.
The work of evolution is full of suffering. The greater ill IMO is not
suffering itself, but suffering without control. Of course real control is
the surest antidote, but even an illusion of control is better than no control
at all and may suffice until real control is achieved. I suspect the self
meme you speak of may be good on both counts.
A sustained situation of suffering without control is fortunately not
maintained for an extended time. Eventually a learned helplessness sets in
and the brain starts to flood with endorphines, clouding the mind and easing
the suffering immensely. I think this plays an important part in Near Death
Experiences. Dying is usually a peaceful and compassionate affair.
-Jake
P.S.
Q: What did the Zen Buddhist say to the hot dog vender?
A: "Make me one with everything."