> Nathaniel Hall wrote:
> >
> > Richard Brodie wrote:
> >
> > > On Thursday, October 9, 1997 8:46 PM, Nathaniel Hall
> > > [SMTP:natehall@worldnet.att.net] wrote:
> > > > Two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen make one molecule of
> > > water. Is
> > > > this an example of one of those patterns which don't exist?
> > >
> > > You are confused when you say "don't exist." Patterns are labels,
> > > distinction-memes, and they exist in minds. The substance that we
> > > approximate by calling it a water molecule certainly exists, but the map is
> > > not the territory.
> > >
> > > Richard Brodie RBrodie@brodietech.com http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie
> > > Author, VIRUS OF THE MIND: The New Science of the Meme
> > > http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/votm.htm
> > > Visit Meme Central: http://www.brodietech.com/rbrodie/meme.htm
> >
> > A good map will guide you over unfamiliar territory. One may only be a
> > symbolic representation of the other but if the territory did not have a
> > certain state or "pattern" no map would ever see you on your way. In philosophy
> > this is know as the problem of universals. If universals did not in fact exist
> > independent of anyone's thoughts , why then does a good map work as well as it
> > does?
> > The Nateman
>
> nice flip, well, hows this,
> Due to the similar nature of our brains, in that we probably have a
> similar language, education, and symbol input, A good map conforms to
> nearly all of the symbolism that we mutually understand. This can be
> demonstrated by giving a map to a child and asking for help reading it.
> The child will be completly confused and utterly worthless for help, the
> patterns will not exist in the same way they do for you and I.
> Now, in between the lines, "if the territory did not have a certain
> state or "pattern"". Implying that "state" and "Pattern" are similar is
> a nice trick. forzen water is also in a "state", but it is not a pattern
> (i expect a response to this one).
I think at this point a definition of a pattern would be useful. Any takers?
> A "state" is a condition of existence
> at a point in time, and everything changes as time expands. In this way
> universals are constantly changing except perhaps at a singularity.
> A good map works because our symbolism is similar, and, the rate of
> change in the universe appears constant to us.
>
> Sodom
> I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT AND WAS BLINDED BY IT, GLAD TO HAVE THAT THIRD
> EYE.
"Our symbolism is similar" , but similar to what? To that which actually exists.
The substance has form and the map merely shows it. True it does change , but a good
map is one that is up to date!
The Nateman : who shall try hard to continue to shine the light.