List,
There are not two ways of looking at one thing. There is one way of looking
at one thing and an infinite number of incorrect or partially correct ways
of looking at something. I do agree, however, that "the whole makes
decisions on what parts to include" and that *can* demonstrate how "we" can
control memes *if we are the whole*. I guess the assumption is (like you
said) "we are not solely memetic creatures." I have questions as to whether
we control memes or if memes control us; but, if we can manipulate memes and
predict their effects--even if we can not control those effects--then that
is sufficient for experimentation. (like saying we can manipulate a tiger
but not control the tiger).
Brett
At 02:27 PM 9/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, David McFadzean wrote:
>> At 06:28 PM 9/19/97 -0700, Tadeusz Niwinski wrote:
>> >A question to all concerned with memetical experiments: Do we have axioms
>> >and if so, what do you think of the 3 axioms I have suggested:
>> >> (1) Memes exist.
>> >> (2) Memes control what we do.
>> >> (3) We are capable of selecting memes we let control what we do.
>> >#(3) seems to be the most controversial.
>> I would like to suggest another:
>> (1a) We are our memes.
>> So from (1a) and (2):
>> (4) We control what we do.
>> >From (1a) and (3)
>> (5) Our memes are capable of selecting memes we let control what we do.
>Yes. Thank you, David.
>But we're not solely memetic creatures, so I do have a quibble with 1a.
>We are the combination of our genes and our memes. That _combination_ has
>some power of selection over what memes it accepts as part of itself.
>And as for Brett's response, about how memes can control us if we control
>memes--Since our minds *are* our memes (in combination with innate
>features), the two statements are not contradictory. They are two
>different ways of looking at the same thing. The whole makes decisions on
>what parts to include, and those parts affect the decisions the whole
>makes.
>Eva,
Returning,
rBERTS%n
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