RE: virus: maxims and ground rules and suppositions

TheHermit (
Sat, 15 May 1999 00:19:32 -0500

Main Entry: uni·verse
Pronunciation: 'yü-n&-"v&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin universum, from neuter of universus entire, whole, from uni- + versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn -- more at WORTH
Date: 1589
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : COSMOS: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1) : the entire celestial cosmos (2) : MILKY WAY GALAXY (3) : an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy
2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization 3 : POPULATION 4
4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem
5 : a great number or quantity <a large enough universe of stocks... to choose from -- G. B. Clairmont>

Main Entry: 1pos·tu·late
Pronunciation: 'päs-ch&-"lAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ing
Etymology: L postulatus, past participle of postulare; akin to Latin poscere to ask, Old High German forscOn to search, Sanskrit prcchati he asks -- more at PRAY
Date: 1593
2 a : to assume or claim as true, existent, or necessary : depend upon or start from the postulate of b : to assume as a postulate or axiom (as in logic or mathematics)
- pos·tu·la·tion /"päs-ch&-'lA-sh&n/ noun - pos·tu·la·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective

Both from WWWebster.

Rephrased by me as "The universe contains everything real and imaginary." If it were not all inclusive of everything, then set theory, which deals equally well with real and imaginary things, could not function. The universe is "E", the universal set of everything. Imagine E as containing all the above classes. Now for every "real thing" there is a function which can be defined to transfer it to the set of {real things proven to exist}. Where the function is not yet defined, the "thing", no matter how much we suspect it may be "real" is still not a member of that set. The "real" universe, (carefully used by me in all my posts to distinguish between "real things proven to exist" and "things we believe to exist but which are not proven to exist", "supposed things which may exist" and "imaginary things which may exist but probably don't" is only a subset of the greater universe which strangely enough also contains all the imaginary universes that we have already conceived and even the imaginary universes yet to be conceived of.

Now a circle has a definition. As such it is a member of the set of {defined "things"} which in turn is a member of {defined imaginary "things"} which is in turn a member of {all "things"} which is the same as {universe}. To attempt to argue that a {defined "thing"} or even a {defined imaginary "thing"} is not a member of the {universe} is self-evidently incorrect. Even {undefined, not yet conceived of imaginary "things"} are members of {universe}. And that, as Webster shows above, is definitional.

Any questions?


> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []On Behalf
> Of Eric Boyd
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 10:46 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: virus: maxims and ground rules and suppositions
> Hi,
> TheHermit <> writes:
> <<
> The universe is defined as the set of all things real and imaginary.
> >>
> I disagree. The universe only contains real things. Some of these
> real things have imaginary ideas (some of which are representations of
> imaginary objects), but the universe doesn't contain those imaginary
> objects -- only the *representations*. And those representations are
> embedded in a frame of reference defined by the beings possessing the
> ideas...
> The universe does not contain *real* circles.
> <<
> Any instance of a circle will be a "true" instance if it works well
> enough for the purposes for which it is instantiated.
> >>
> Being an engineer, I see your point -- but I think it's more accurate
> to say that if it works "well enough", then it's a "true enough"
> instance of a circle.
> ERiC