Re: virus: Propaganda and Travel

joe dees (
Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:15:57 -0400

At Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:50:56 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
>..hi folks. I'm new to this list - how's everybody doing?
>..I've been lurking for a while, trying to get the feel of what's
>going on (very impressive for the most part, found some instructive
>stuff yesterday).
>..anyhow, I just couldn't let this pass.
>> No, we should withdraw, and let thousands be slaughtered and
>> hundreds of thousands be deported and dispossessed, simply because
>> we are not perfect and errorless warriors, therefore no better than
>> the latest Hitler clone Europe has spawned!
>..for a list devoted at least in part to a discussion of memetics,
>I've got to confess I'm a little bit apalled. Let's take a brief look
>at this whole Hitler comparison, shall we. The disputes in Kosovar go
>back hundreds of years and are based on complex interactions of
>ethnicity, religion and the territorial imperative. The comparison of
>Milosevic (sp?) to Hitler is specious and an obvious strawman,
>fostered by the military-entertainment complex to lend surface weight
>to the whole action. (anybody seen the latest TIME magazine - "the
>new face of evil"?)
Remember that Hitler's Aryans (formed of three native tribes) considered themselves to be cleansing first their Fatherland, then a "Greater Aryan Nation", the Third Reich, of members of another religious and ethnic class which had immigrated over hundreds of years and whose members and faith they considered subhuman. It liiks like a pretty isomorphic comparison to me.
>..If the concern is really about preventing slaughter and
>disposession of civilians then why hasn't action been taken in areas
>where the same process has been going on for a much longer period of
>time? The answer is simple - Kosovo and surrounding regions are a
>historically unstable area of the world, the US has vested interests
>in maintaining both regional stability in the area and good relations
>with military/trade allies in the region (Turkey springs immediately
>to mind). In areas where US military/trade interests are unlikely to
>be affected by such actions ("ethnic cleansing" or whatever other
>glossy soundbite memetic tag you'd like to put on the event) - eg.
>Columbia, Laos - noone cares, a bline eye is turned and as long as
>the cash keeps flowing it'll stay that way.
I also think that we erred in not more vigorously pursuing an end to the atrocities in Cambodia and Rwanda; however, the fact that we didn't act there is not an argument for making the same omissive mistake in Kosovo, but rather a reminder of how much worse it can get there in the future if we do nothing now.
> At this point, I
>> firmly am convinced that Milosevic is hunkering down in Belgrade
>> bunkers whilst waging his propaganda war via the internet and CNN
>..hmmm.. how a dictatorial regime from a small central european
>country could launch a propaganda war over communications media
>developed in the land of his enemies, controlled by his enemies and
>sponsored by the industrial arm of the enemy economic system is a bit
>beyond me.. care to explain?
Check page 19 of the April 19th issue of Time Magazine.
>> and instructing the Tiger Brigades to accelerate their genocide and
>> forced relocation programs, and that nothing short of a ground war
>> will deter him.
>..well of course he is. It wouldn't make much sense for him to tell
>them to hold back now, would it.
Neither did it make sense for Clinton to preemptively and publicly eliminate the ground option, for that emboldened Milosevic to do what he has subsequently done and continues to do in Kosovo. This is one decision Clinton will be forced by these circumstances to reverse.
> The only way to deal with bullies is to royally
>> and regally kick their ever-luvin' asses, for the force meme is the
>> only one which will sway them.
>..let's assume this is true. Any suggestions on how we should go
>about stopping the well-documented and extensive bullyboy tactics
>employed by the United States?
>.."the force meme".. I don''t think Yoda would approve.
Fuck Yoda. This is serious, it's not a Goddamned movie. We have been guilty of reprehensible behavior in Vietnam and Chile, to name but two, and we should, as a nation, carefully consider all foreign use of US military force, but if the staunching of genocide is not a reason to employ our military outside our borders, there never will be one. In this case, it would be reprehensible of us NOT to act.
> The longer we wait, the worse it'll
>> be. Let's do it and get this behind us, rather than having it hang
>> ahead of us like a Sword of Damocles.
>..technically, the sword of Damocles hands above, not ahead, but I
>digress. Your metaphor is apt, but ill-applied - the lesson of the
>swordof Damocles is that a wise ruler must carefully balance a range
>of competing interests and agendas while maintaining a functional
>environment. The way to do this is not by selectively targeting
>atrocities inimical to governmental interests while pointedly
>ignoring others. Balance requires a clear and consistent application
>of principle, not a cynical application of force to serve selfish
We'd be a lot happier if Milosevic, by his actions, was not making this expensive and distasteful business necessary. We have the stability of Europe to gain or lose by it; the Kosovar Albanians have their homes, possessions and lives at stake. It must be done.
> Sure, the medicine's bitter,
>> in terms of lives lost and money spent, but we'll feel much better
>> when the global body politic is free of this fascist disease
>..granted that fascism is a current affliction of the "global body
>politic" (which is itself an artificial memetic construction designed
>to grant certain powerful bodies a facile means of excusing their
>self-serving actions). Bombs do not, have not and probably never will
>serve as an effective antidote. Fascism is not a physical complex, it
>is an ideological complex.
Yes, but the minds which are infected with the "Purify the Serb Homeland" meme control armies of hands which are wielding weapons which are killing and displacing hundreds of thousands of human beings. Singing "Cum Ba Ya" to them is unlikely to work at this juncture (but you're welcome to try). We can work on an attitude adjustment once we stop this racist slaughter.
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Joe E. Dees
Poet, Pagan, Philosopher

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