Re: virus: E4C

Eric Boyd (
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:53:51 -0500


Tim Rhodes <> writes:

>>1 Samuel 31:3-5 (English-NIV)
>>The fighting grew fierce around Saul, and when the archers overtook
>>him, they wounded him critically.
>>Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and run me through,
>>these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse
>>me." But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul
>>took his own sword and fell on it.
>>When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his
>>and died with him.

Tim, I do not understand how we can read these passages so differently. The above verses clearly say that Saul took his own sword and killed himself. The one immediatly below says that an Amalekite killed him, and the last clearly says that the Philistines "struck Saul down on Gilboa" (the KJV is even clearer with "when the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa" (verse 12)). Even if "an Amalekite" is actually a "Philistine", that still leaves the suicide verse as contradictory.

If you want to maintain something like "he tried to kill him, but failed; the Amalekite tried to kill him but failed, and finally the Philistines slew him", I'm not going for it. The Bible says what it means.

>>2 Samuel 1:6-10 (English-NIV)
>>"I happened to be on Mount Gilboa," the young man said, "and there
>>Saul, leaning on his spear, with the chariots and riders almost upon
>>When he turned around and saw me, he called out to me, and I said,
>>`What can I do?'
>>"He asked me, `Who are you?' "`An Amalekite,' I answered.
>>"Then he said to me, `Stand over me and kill me! I am in the throes
>>death, but I'm still alive.'
>>"So I stood over him and killed him, because I knew that after he
>>fallen he could not survive. And I took the crown that was on his
>>and the band on his arm and have brought them here to my lord."
>>2 Samuel 21:11-13 (English-NIV)
>>When David was told what Aiah's daughter Rizpah, Saul's concubine,
>>he went and took the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from the
>>citizens of Jabesh Gilead. (They had taken them secretly from the
>>public square at Beth Shan, where the Philistines had hung them
>>they struck Saul down on Gilboa.)
>>David brought the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan from there, and
>>the bones of those who had been killed and exposed were gathered up.
>>The words speak for themselves.

>One account has him falling on his own sword, another has him falling
on his
>own spear, (a very minor difference) but not quite dying and needing
to be
>finished off by another. And the last account is talking about his
>being hung not him (or even his body).

The first account is indeed him falling on his sword. The second account is an Amalekite running him through, and the last doesn't give his mode of death, it merely says he was slain by the Philistines. The entire hanging seen is irrelevant. They are merely bringing all the bones together for a common burial, and off-hand happen to mention that Saul was killed by the Philistines. (and *then* hung on their wall, I agree)