RE: virus: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

carlw (
Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:30:19 -0600

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> []On Behalf
> Of Tim Rhodes
> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 10:15 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: virus: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
> On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, carlw wrote:
> > As far as I know, reason has never lead one group of people
> to savagely kill
> > off another group of people for having different beliefs.
> Nagasaki, mon amour.
> -Prof. Tim

Umm, no. Before the uranium bomb was dropped on Hiroshima (on 6 August 1945) and the plutonium bomb used on Nagasaki (on 9 August 1945), Japan had already told the Americans that they were ready to surrender (conditionally), and had told the American's allies (the Russians), that they were ready to surrender unconditionally. In addition, American intelligence resources had confirmed that the Japanese were ready to surrender based on the discussions in progress with the Russians and decyphered messages being transmitted by Russian diplomatic and military intelligence about discussions with the Japanes government(see the NSA's project Verona site).

The bombing of civilian targets in Japan was an act of revenge. Not reason, not sense and certainly not to meet any military goal. The carpet bombing and firestorming of Khobe, Osaka were as bad - not to speak of the destruction of Dresden and other German cities.

IMO the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were undoubtedly unnecessary and barbarous acts. Here are a few quotes (all from 1945) which I think support my view:

April: General Curtis le May (US Air Force) expressed a belief that the war could be ended by September or October without an invasion.

May 12: William Donovan, Director of the Office of Strategic Studies, reported to President Truman that Shuichi Kate, Japan's Minister to Switzerland, wished to "help arrange for a cessation of hostilities."

Mid-June: "A surrender of Japan can be arranged with terms that can be accepted by Japan and that will make fully satisfactory provision for America's defense against future trans-Pacific aggression." Admiral W.D. Leahy, President's Chief of Staff.

July 16: The US exploded a nuclear bomb secrety in the New Mexico desert to prove to themselves that it would work.

July 18: Stalin told Truman that he had had a telegram from the Japanese Emperor himself asking for peace. Code-breakers were already aware of this. The Soviet Union was still officially neutral at that time.

Late-July: Admiral William D. Leahy, Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and President Truman's Chief of Staff: "The Japanese are already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons..." (In the 1970's he said "In being the first to use it [the atomic bomb], we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.")

August 6: Hiroshima destroyed
August 9: Nagasaki destroyed

August 10: The Japanese publicly broadcast an offer of surrender. Truman ordered conventional military operations to continue full force.

August 14: The Japanese surrender was accepted.

1948 "It would be a mistake to suppose that the fate of Japan was settled by the atomic bomb. Her defeat was certain before the first bomb fell." (UK Prime Minister Winston Churchill.)

1946 "Certainly prior to 31 December 1945... Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated." (US Strategic Bombing Survey, 1946.)

So I don't think your example is one of reason? Unreason perhaps. Look at the August 10th entry above. Maybe "These people are evil devils and we need to punish them"? Sounds like faith to me.