RE: virus: matter, consciousness and information (was Will)

Richard Brodie (
Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:09:39 -0800

You see, your attachment to a single Level-2 model of reality leads you to insane conclusions such as that neither consciousness nor matter are real.

I think I need to sit down.

Richard Brodie Author, "Virus of the Mind: The New Science of the Meme" Free newsletter! Visit Meme Central at

-----Original Message-----
From: []On Behalf Of Robin Faichney
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:46 PM
Subject: virus: matter, consciousness and information (was Will)

In message <000101be6c9f$356eb440$cb293fce@uymfdlvk>, Richard Brodie <> writes
>Brave Sir Robin wrote:
><<But why do you say "consciousness and matter are not"?
>Show me consciousness. Show me matter. In both cases,
>I guarantee, I'll show you information. (Much as I
>honestly admire your memetic wisdom, I think you have
>something to learn about metaphysics.)>>
>I see how a given piece of matter could be considered information, looking
>at its molecular construction and so on. I don't see how consciousness
>be considered information -- it is a process, like management or
>While consciousness may be partly composed of information, that does not
>make the whole also information.

You're right, consciousness is not in itself information. What it is, is a notional information sink. Just as matter is a notional information source. My point is that both of these are entirely notional, based on the assumption that an information flow must have a local source and sink, failing to see its eternal (or at least Big Bang -> Heat Death) reality. Or, to put it another way, actual (as op. instrumental) belief in matter and/or consciousness is due to short-sightedness. (While use of the concepts without true belief is due to pragmatism.)